The Frank Moore Archives

Hidden treasures discovered while digging through Frank Moore's huge archives.

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Louise Scott – Deep Conversations in the Shaman’s Den

November 15, 1998 on fakeradio.com

Frank called this interview, “a deep conversation with a wise woman, a cultural pioneer, a midwife, an international bag lady …”

Frank always said that Louise was “to blame” for his life … he also wrote that “thanks to the gentle guidance by Louise Scott, I started to see my body as a tool.” This interview reveals the depth of that friendship of 45 years, starting from the very first time they saw each other at an all-night party of folk singers in 1968 San Bernardino. But it also dives deep into Louise’s down-to-earth wisdom from her profoundly rich and full life, with glimpses into just a sampling of the many chapters of this life. With joy and compassion, weaving through the beatniks of 1950s San Francisco, hanging out with satirist/author Mort Sahl when he first performed in L.A., starting communes and cultural centers through the 1960s and 1970s, traveling the world, being a midwife and working in hospice, and living outside of the borders and limits of society as a way of life … Louise is a model of this freedom, and has always been a mother and a friend, not just to Frank, but to people in general.

Below is an excerpt from the book, Deep Conversations in the Shaman’s Den, Volume 1.


Frank: I know there are a lot of people, all over, in all lines of work, who wish I was not in the world.

Louise: They wish you weren’t in the world?!? Good God, Frank.

Frank: Well, we have someone here who they can blame for that. (all laughing) If it was not for her, I might not be here.

Louise: Well, you know Frank, if it wasn’t for you I might not be here either. (Frank sounds)

Frank: And there are a lot of people who … (Frank screeching, Louise laughing)

Louise: Watch out, watch out, watch out.

Frank: Who would blame me for that too. (all laughing) This is Louise Scott.

Linda: What? You want me to sum up? Oh!

Louise: Careful, careful there!

Linda: I’ll say what I know and you can correct me. I am going to attempt to tell a brief story of how Frank and Louise hooked up.

Frank: And you can stop me …

Linda: Yeah, you can fill in …

Louise: I can correct you or I can … OK …

Linda: Yeah, and fill stuff in …

Lousie: And I’m sure Frank will have a few little …

Linda: Frank was living at home with his mother and brother. (Frank sounds) I guess, in San Bernardino County.

Louise: Right.

Linda: He had made an attempt to leave home at one point, by getting an attendant who turned out to be drunk (Frank sounds) who pulled a gun on him, so now he’s back living with his mom, aware of the fact that if he doesn’t get out of the house soon, he could turn into the crip son who stays with his mom his whole life, so he was feeling like something had to give. He was toward the end of his college years. Louise was the cool, hippy lady that lived in town with … on kind of a little farm or something? Or some piece of land or something?

Louise: I had an acre there with a lot of out-buildings and whatnot … and my previous husband and I made a swimming pool and we made a sweat and we were really into it. We were supporting ourselves doing landscaping.

Frank: What is a sweat?

Louise: A hot steam bath, so we could get in there and get real hot then jump into the cold water, then get back out and whatnot. And, the first time I remember seeing Frank was at Sally … what was her name, a folk singer … we were all at this house, and here’s Frank, my God, here’s Frank. And, I, I, I … I watched him watching people. And I felt like he saw so much more than other people saw. And I felt a little uncomfortable about it, of course. (Frank low sounds) And that was initially … and then I was off, after that, off with the hippies. When I came back I got in it with Frank.

Frank: We did not talk at that time …

Louise: No, no, no. But I watched. And he was watching. And then, that was before I went off with all the hippies, right? (Frank sounds) And then I was up here at Haight Ashbury and Nevada City. And I left that and went back to San Bernardino and that’s when we really connected.

Frank: While you were gone, some of my friends from college moved in …

Linda: To her house?

Louise: Oh, those guys! (Frank screeches) (everyone laughs) Oh, OK. Well anyway then, when I go back, is when I really got involved with Frank. (Frank sounds) He would be by, and, with friends of his and whatnot. And in the meantime then, shortly after that, I moved to Santa Fe, when the big exodus to the country was happening. And I was back trying to sell that piece of property. Want the story about I was crying? (Frank sounds) I had been very sick and I was in the bedroom crying one day because I was losing my hair. And I heard someone was there and I walk in the kitchen and here is Frank. (makes sounds mimicking Frank’s sounds) You know, full of joy and all that! And I just … that was when I really felt a real breakthrough with Frank. And like, at that time I said, oh my God man, I’m out there crying about my vanity, you know, and I felt really bad about it. How could I be so vain, you know? And a day or two later, he brought me this beautiful painting that he had done of this head. (Frank sounds) And he said this is vanity. All golden curls and earrings and lipstick and this and that. He said, vanity is very beautiful. And then in talking about Santa Fe, he said, oh I wish I could go there. I said, you want to come live with us? (all laughing) (Louise mimics Frank’s sounds) Yeah. And so, we moved all to Santa Fe with me and my kids. (Frank screeching)

Frank: No!

Louise: No?

Frank: But I went before you got there.

Louise: Oh yeah! A friend, Steve, took him in the car. And then I came with all this furniture and stuff. Maybe I get it wrong, Frank! (Frank sounds) You know!

Frank: You said (Linda giggling) it would be two weeks. (Frank screeches)

Louise: How long was it?

Frank: Two months. (laughing)

Louise Scott, Frank Moore and Linda Mac. Photo by Michael LaBash.

Louise: Was it that long? In the meantime, he was at a place called The Center. That was set up at that time, the late 1960s right? Very late ’60s, early ’70s …

Frank: Early ’70s.

Louise: Every dissident in the United States was on the road. (Frank sounds) Going right through Santa Fe. The word was out there was free land. And this friend of ours who had become a Catholic priest at the time, Father George …

Frank: I first saw him when he was MC’ing for Lee Michaels.

Linda: Was this in San Bernardino? (Frank sounds) That’s the first time you ever saw Father George.

Louise: I don’t remember Lee Michaels. I mean, I don’t remember that. But that was away from me. I mean, it wasn’t connected with me particularly.

Linda: Yes. (Frank sounds)

Louise: So Frank is here, right in the middle of all these people, going all over the world, (Frank sounds) doing just dandy!

Frank: My first real time on my own. (Frank laughing)

Louise: On his own, right.

Linda: So you should describe where, what, like, what it was. I don’t think we’ve told anybody.

Louise: We called it The Center. And it was an old nursing home that we rented. It was huge. It had a commercial kitchen and all of that.

Linda: And it was you and George that started it?

Louise: That got this started … plus some other people. I mean, you know there were … it was really a joint effort, communal effort.

Linda: Yeah.

Louise: But, there was one guy in Santa Fe who volunteered to come and help everybody fix their broken down cars. (Frank sounds) And we had the Chicano Center that were a lot of the Chicano people. It was kind of the first integration there actually, between gringos and Chicanos … happened through there. Oh, everything happened through there (Frank sounds) really …

Linda: It was like a crash pad, where people could stay …

Louise: It was like a crash pad … people could stay. And we got people to donate produce … everybody kind of cooked and contributed and whatnot. And this got going there. And then I arrived, and then Frank lived with me and my kids because they threw Father George in jail for running a disorderly house or something. (Frank laughs) I don’t remember what they got him on. But I’m real grateful this happened. Because the amount of pressure that took off of Santa Fe that summer, God knows what would have happened. (Frank sounds) You know, I mean, kids were making love in the plaza, right? And they’re getting thrown in jail. (Frank sounds) It was … it was heavy. There was too much, all of a sudden, happened to Santa Fe. You know, we liberated hippies go there (Frank sounds) without our brassieres and that was totally outside of that culture at that time, and there was a huge clash that this prevented. (Frank sounds)

Frank: In fact, they bombed The Center.

Louise: Yeah, I wasn’t there when that happened. I was still going back and forth trying to sell this house in San Bernardino. See Frank was there. Steve got him there. Then I got there and we got a house rented and we got the other situation together. But most of the … initial work at The Center, I was involved in. But that was before Frank.

Linda: Yeah.

Louise: So when Frank got there … I don’t know why I was that long getting there, Frank. I was on my way. (laughing)

Linda: He said you had to settle things with the selling of the house?

Louise: Yeah, I never got the house sold. (Frank screeches) I probably rented it out again. There were problems. Government FHA loans and stuff. So I didn’t sell it at that time. But Frank was … you know, he was in his glory after being pretty much isolated. Although he’d been going to college. But, I mean, I’m sure he was just having a ball there. (Frank sounds) You know, it was good for him.

Linda: Yeah.

Louise: And then he lived with me and my children. And we were still very much a part of this alternate society. And fully a part of … remember the night in the tepee? The peyote meeting. (Frank sounds) We dug a hole in the ground so Frank could be propped up. (Linda laughs) You know, because there’s no … everybody’s on the floor, on the ground in the tepee. And you know, Frank was always ready for anything. Whatever it is, he wants to try it! He wants to do it!

Linda: Yeah.

Louise: So, there was a lot of that type of (Frank sounds) … whatever everybody else was doing. Which, it started in San Bernardino. You better believe he wants to get in the sweat and get in the pool. (Frank sounds) You know, tough buzzard. (Frank laughing)


DOWNLOAD THE COMPLETE INTERVIEW HERE (PDF)


Frank Moore interviews Louise Scott for FAKE Radio … a deep conversation with a wise woman, a cultural pioneer, a midwife, an international baglady … Frank Moore’s Shaman’s Den, November 15, 1998.

i came to play

Poetry Bash, Fort Mason, San Francisco 1988. Photo by Linda Mac.

I came to play!
Came to the table
to play
I don’t care what I have
to do
to get a seat
at the table

I play every hand
dealt to me
not really caring about
winning or losing
or about skill…
just playing hands
to stay in the game

Yes, I am a dangerous player,
keep on playing

I came to play!
Came to bed
not to fuck you
but
to melt with you enjoying
mutual surrender
washing pleasure
swept away into oneness
exploring skin from the inside,
beyond time,
beyond self,
into the fun of being
into exploring
the furry cozy sweating love
that can’t be confined to the bed,
but claims the whole life
as its playpen
I came to play
to mix things up
to see what unexpected
will appear,
to jam
with playmates,
to lose ourselves
within one another,
within the playing,
the dancing,
the touching,
the music…
into listening
and melting

I came to play…
playing life the best way I can…
always playing against the house,
against the odds…
not a smart player…
never in competition…
just keep my eye
on the ball,
on each hand,
on following
the every move
of Lady Luck

I came to play…
often in the lonely fields
beyond taboo,
breaking thru THE WALL
to new possibilities…
but I am a team player…
always looking for playmates
to get muddy or sweaty with…
because…
truth be told…
playing with myself
for myself
has never been fun,
only lonely

I came to play
with colors, noises, realities, bodies, words, characters, limits, dreams, images,
life, death, symbols, magic…
and with you

I came to play
and I’m a dangerous player
because I don’t play
for money,
fame,
power,
or from anger,
bitterness,
hatred,
emptiness,
or to win…
so I can’t lose
can’t be beaten!

I came to play
to play
just for fun
….just to change everything!

I came to play…
after all…
I want to play with you…
we are mammals,
after all!


© 2000, Frank Moore

From Frank’s book Chapped Lap:
http://www.eroplay.com/chappedlap/index.html

LUVeR: Anti-Corporate, Anti-Capitalist Web Radio

This is an interview from November 2, 2002 that Frank did with Corey Deitz of About.com. LUVeR was active from February 1999 through April 2012.


LUVeR: Anti-Corporate, Anti-Capitalist Web Radio
Radical, Uncensored, and streaming 24/7

LUVeR stands for “Love Underground Visionary Revolution”. It prides itself on being anti-corporate, anti-capitalist and probably a few more “anti” things as well. What it isn’t against is provocative, fresh Web Radio. LUVeR and stations in the same spirit are what Webcasting is all about. Your Radio Guide talks with one of LUVeR’s people, Frank Moore.

Corey: What makes LUVeR unique in your opinion?

Frank Moore: Well…how many radical webstations are there that are totally non-commercial, completely uncensored, stream live 24/7, have a core rotation of over 15,000 songs (adding more every day!) of every kind of music, webcast a wide range of programs created by people around the world, cover news, do exposés, cover political and cultural events, have large on-demand audio and video libraries, a separate news site…all run by just people for almost 4 years? Guess we have to define the word “unique”.

Corey: LUVeR states it is “an anti-corporate, anti-capitalist revolution!”. Can you talk more about that?

Frank Moore: Well, LUVeR is not about selling, making money, making it big. It is communication, spreading passions, inciting revolution. This is why we do LUVeR, pay for LUVeR, etc. This is what the internet is suited for. The corporate capitalists are freaking out because they finally have realized that the only way to make profits off the web is through monopolization. They also realized that they can not compete with us passion creative people making community together. So they are coming after us. But that’s doomed to failure.

LUVeR challenges the audience. When we first started LUVeR, people freaked because we played all kinds of music together…Without the false marketing ploy of genres. I know when people freak, we are doing our job! So we have weened people over the years away from the limits of genres. They freak when we show human eroticism. They freak when we do news, politics…Anything other than straight music. But LUVeR is here, not to make money or create a mass listenership, but to challenge, to plow down limits…And that over time attracts an adventurous audience.

Corey: LUVeR’s schedule is fairly varied. In traditional radio, that’s called “block programming” where different types of shows take up “blocks” of time. Would you agree LUVeR programs that way or am I wrong?

Frank Moore: God no! Block programming fragments reality…And gets boring fast! Each person is god over her show’s content…I never know what they will do. We schedule things purely on the practical level, not on content, not what will go with what! That would be safe…Boring!

Corey: Tell us about some of your favorite shows on LUVeR…

Frank Moore: Do I look that stupid? That would get me killed! Most of the shows I love. A few I don’t like. You have to explore LUVeR yourself! But my live streaming video show, the Shaman’s Den, is on Sundays at 8pm pt…The ultimate variety show with live bands, interviews, etc. For 2 hours. And then, after the sexy Susan Block’s video show, my “Playing with Passion” comes on where we play my videos of live performances…A lot of nudity! And that is just Sunday night!

Corey: LUVeR says it’s a “tribal” channel. Can you explain more about that?

Frank Moore: Well, it’s a big tribe who creates LUVeR, us here, the LUVeR crews who go out and tape events, the people who do their shows on LUVeR (anyone can do a LUVeR show), the D.I.Y. Bands who send us their music, the voices we webcast, and of course the listeners/viewers, etc., etc….A tribe of thousands!

The LUVeR logo
LUVeR Home page in 2012
Artwork for Frank’s show “Frank’s Deep Roots Music”
Artwork for Frank’s show “Frank Spins Hot Wax”

CREATIVITY IS LIKE SHITTING

By Frank Moore, May 31, 2005

Creativity is like shitting.
Most people do it.
Everyone needs to do it….
More or less regularly.
Every shit is different.
There is nothing like a good shit!
Some people obsess on their shitting!
Some obsess on their own shit;
Others obsess on others’ shit,
Even buying it!
I just enjoy a good shit!
Oh shit,
I’ll let you in on a secret…
I play with shit!
Creativity is just playing.


“Toni”, by Frank Moore, digital painting, 2011

BOUNDARIES KILL

by Frank Moore, January 29, 2002

Boundaries, borders
Are lies of power
They keep people in
They keep people out
They ain’t really there
Only in the sight
Of guard guns and dogs
The lines just ain’t there
You can just keep on walking
Toward me,
Into me

You could keep on walking
Except for their bullets of fear
Define and maintain your boundaries,
They tell us!

That keeps us weak and isolated
That keeps me from you,
Boxed up, bottled up
That keeps the wrong people out
Us protected in abstractions
That keeps our human spirit divided
Keeps Life separate from us
Keeps us warring, scared, hating
Keeps you from me
Keeps us hungry, thirsty, cold
Just owning
Instead of living deep and free.

Skin is not a border
Skin is a sea flowing everywhere
Touching, feeling, unlimited,
Breathing deeply
Giving, taking as one
Experiencing, feeding as one
A thick rich soup
Which can’t be canned or bottled

Healthy skin is thick and flexible
Healthy breath is deep and lusty
Our healthy body does not need
Limiting power,
Doesn’t need to hold in,
To hold back,
To die from not dancing,
Not risking,
Not feeling pain, joy, pleasure
Deeply
Just dying slowly
Within the tight shallow
Owning MY SPACE

And they laugh in the gun towers!

“Scape”, digital painting by Frank Moore, 1998

Life has the potential of both fear and strength

Excerpt from Frank Moore’s book, Cherotic Magic Revised, Chapter 4 “Reality Shaping” (Section 18)


Most people feel the possibility of fear and doubt within an event or situation and believe it is them fearing and doubting. By doing so, they take the fear and doubt onto themselves, making the fear and doubt their own. This transforms, transmutes, the event or situation from just life into a terrible monster of which the person is a victim. Left unchecked, this fear or doubt will leak into the person’s whole personal reality, making parts of herself victims and other parts monsters. But this is not the end of it. Other people become monsters or victims as fear and doubt leaks out from the personal reality into the general reality of the cultural frame. By taking on fear and doubt, by making it her own, the person is taking on the responsibility of the universal doubt and fear. This is because she becomes a transmitter of doubt and fear. She amplifies the doubt and fear in the world. The more she believes doubt and fear is himself, the louder and the wider the broadcast.

Fortunately, this entire process is also true when a person operates from, sees, chooses, and uses the positive, the strength, the power, the freedom in a situation or an event. The student should understand that every situation in life has the potential of both fear and strength, of both doubt and power, of both desire and freedom. This background of potential is always there within life. The choice is always there. In the western modern culture, doubt, fear, and desire are actively promoted because victims are easier to control and manipulate than free humans.

For this reason we will always feel doubt, fear, and desire around us in this society. But we are not responsible for doubt, fear, desire unless we choose to take them on as our own, as us. But once we choose to take these negatives on as our own, to think and act upon them, then we are taking on the guilty responsibility for them not only in our lives, but in the world in general.

But if we brush past the fears, the doubts, and the desires to lustfully take on life as our own, make it our own with all of its strength, power, and freedom, then we assume the responsibility (in all of the senses of that word) for life, strength, power, and freedom. We do this not only for ourselves, but for everyone. The more life, freedom, strength, and power is chosen, the more available these are for everyone.

This has been called the way of the warrior. It is the way of the shaman. But it is also the way of living happily. We have to always push past the ever-present doubt and fear to lustfully join with life, lustfully work with life, working with everything life gives us, including what would look to victims as hardships and sufferings. By doing this, we crack over time the shell of “hardships”, finding these life experiences transformed into deep living blessings.


Artwork by LaBash from Cherotic Magic Revised

Zappa Liking It Wasn’t Enough

From the book HOW TO HANDLE AN ANTHROPOLOGIST: Russell Shuttleworth, PhD interviews shaman/performance artist Frank Moore


Session 51, January 27, 2003

Russell: We were talking about the band, getting the band together. We talked a little bit about some of the performances you did.
Frank: Did you watch …
Russell: I completely forgot to check it out! Sorry. I will write a note.
Frank: Tell me about it! Like us!
(Russell talks about all that he has going on right now)
Frank: When the OBR hit, all of the sudden we were going two nights a week and the workshop on Sundays and pairings.
Russell: Yeah, it sounds like you were busy then too. It takes some adjusting.
Frank: Not to mention doing the sessions.
Russell: Yeah, I was tending to grumble that I didn’t have much time before, but sometimes you realize how frivolous you were with your time before when you really start getting busy. And I realized, I was wasting a lot of time before and I didn’t think I was. Suddenly, you’re doing three times as much and you’re still doing it. So anyway, I will look at it next time!
Frank: That was why I did not tell what acts we were doing until we got there.
Russell: If you want to pick up some other aspect that was going on in your life either at that time or some other themes, we could get back to that after I watch it this time. If you don’t want to get into it.
Frank: Not really.
Russell: OK. Then I can just do it in retrospect. I think you’re ready, huh?
Frank: They had to be prepared to do any of the acts.
Russell: And prepared meant what?
Frank: Bring the costumes and props.
Russell: OK.
Frank: I wrote the list of acts the day of the show.
Russell: It was just what you happened to feel would be good that particular time.
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) I kept experimenting with the order and we kept adding new acts all the time. So it never was the same.
Russell: Always something different.
Frank: Debbie painted the backdrop. It was like a carnival show.
Russell: Sounds great.
Frank: It was on one side of the stage and on the back wall but people could see us waiting to go on on the side.
Russell: So people in the audience could see you getting ready to go on. OK. So you were giving them a little bit of backstage view.
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) Like we crips could not use the dressing room.
Russell: Why?
Frank: It was upstairs.
Russell: (laughs) Not accessible.
Frank: So, we changed on the side of the stage. They hosed Hoffman down after his act. (laughs)
Russell: (laughs) Got a little messy.
Frank: On the side of the stage. (laughs)
Russell: So people could see it? (laughs)
Frank: (makes “yes” sounds)
Russell: That was very tantalizing.
Frank: So the show was not just what was on the stage.
Russell: How were your crew about that?
Frank: That is just how it was.
Russell: What about the audience? Did they like it do you think?
Frank: Yes. Because there were a lot of fast changes.
Russell: Oh yeah, OK. So there were changes going on a lot of the time?
Frank: I mean costume changes.
Russell: Yeah, that’s what I meant too. So there were a lot of costume changes going on from what I understand.
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: So there would be something going on on stage and somebody changing at the same time sometimes?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: How interesting. Sounds like fun.
Frank: When we got there we only had a half hour to set up and less to tear down.
Russell: Wow. Under time constraints. But you did it.
Frank: Yes.
Russell: So, how long did the performances last for?
Frank: The regular show, one hour.
Russell: That’s a good time.
Frank: The Anniversary show, three hours.
Russell: Three hours! What constitutes the Anniversary show? When did you do the Anniversary show?
Frank: We did it for three, almost four years.
Russell: So each year you’d have one big Anniversary show?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: Wow! What about the last show?
Frank: That was at the Art Institute. The sound did not work.
Russell: When?
Frank: At the Art Institute.
Russell: So how did you handle that?
Frank: People in the audience loved it, but the cast was looking for (laughs) any excuse to kill the show.
Russell: The cast?! That wonderful, dedicated cast?!
Frank: They called me to say why that was it. (laughs)
Russell: What did you say?
Frank: It was hard trying to get them to see what we were doing.
Russell: But didn’t they just love performing?
Frank: They never saw …
Russell: The larger picture?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) Like they always saw the Mab as a dive.
Russell: And it wasn’t.
Frank: They always saw the show as bad. Just what we did.
Russell: What was their motivation for doing it then?
Frank: A good question.
Russell: (laughs)
Frank: They liked to get on stage. Or some did.
Russell: Just liked to ham it up. They didn’t have a sense of the larger picture of what they were doing.
Frank: Ami and Mariah wanted to be rock stars. Diane wanted to be in theater.
Russell: They had aspirations. Did any of them, after the OBR closed, go on to do stuff?
Frank: Ami tried, and years later I ran into her. She said she now knows what I was talking about. She got a technically great band that went nowhere and was not fun.
Russell: She was a member of a band that was technically good, but it wasn’t any fun?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) So she does real estate.
Russell: You mean sell houses and land stuff. Sounds boring.
Frank: Catherine got into a band as the girl.
Russell: Lead singer?
Frank: You know bands that have the girl just for marketing.
Russell: Yeah.
Frank: We went to see them. It was sad. She tried to sing one of our songs, “Beaver”. But without the context of the OBR
Russell: It didn’t work.
Frank: She got shit from the audience.
Russell: They weren’t expecting it, whereas your audience was.
Frank: Sleazy.
Russell: It was out of the right context. Context is everything.
Frank: Or was all about new, creating a new context.
Russell: About creating a new context.
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: OK.
Frank: So when she did not have that context …
Russell: Right. What did she think? Did she know it after she tried it?
Frank: I don’t think she understood.
Russell: That’s a shame. Things can have radically different effects on things.
Frank: Most of them still think it was trash.
Russell: Think of it as trash?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: Do you think it was one of the best things you did now? I get the sense that you enjoyed that.
Frank: On every level.
Russell: Yeah, it worked on every level.
Frank: Most artists would kill to get that fortunate opportunity. We had the Mab to do anything we wanted.
Russell: So you had a venue all of the time.
Frank: Which was one of the three top punk clubs in the country. All the top bands.
Russell: Yeah.
Frank: All the cutting-edge artists.
Russell: Yeah. Prime location.
Frank: Dirk was ready to walk when the owner said we had to go.
Russell: Wow.
Frank: We had people like Zappa say, “Love the show.” (laughs) We had worldwide press.
Russell: So that was pretty much of an impact.
Frank: They said Zappa must have been kidding.
Russell: Who said that?
Frank: The cast. (loud sounds) Robert Fripp liked the band.
Russell: Yeah, well these guys are pretty heavy duty avant-garde musicians. Fripp is definitely out there.
Frank: They did not believe him. (laughs)
Russell: Wow. He’s actually the guy who didn’t lay any wax!
Frank: And I explained it.
Russell: Simple! They were stupid. I have no idea.
Frank: (laughs)
Russell: They had expectations about what constituted good or excellent.
Frank: They thought it was not real theater or music.
Russell: Right. They had expectations about what real theater and music is. So, that’s a shame for them. Because they had a hit and they didn’t realize it.
Frank: So they don’t get it is history.
Russell: Yeah, right. What about Hoffman, was he the same way?
Frank: Like he wanted to be mainstream political.
Russell: You’re talking about him personally?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) So even though he took his acts with respect, he thought it was something to distance himself from.
Russell: When you say he took his acts with respect, what do you mean by that?
Frank: He was a perfectionist.
Russell: OK. So he wanted to distance himself from his acts?
Frank: From the OBR.
Russell: At the time or later or both?
Frank: During.
Russell: How did he do that?
Frank: Not tell …
Russell: People that he was in it?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound)
Russell: Because he was afraid of being shunned by the mainstream?
Frank: Yeah.
Russell: So he may have been having fun but he did not want to own up to it in case it tarnished his reputation in the mainstream.
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) In the closet.
Russell: (laughs) OK. Did he maintain that throughout … that kind of attitude?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) Which is silly.
Russell: (laughs) Why?
Frank: Because history … he was one of the first disabled performance artists.
Russell: Does he cop to that now?
Frank: You would know better than me.
Russell: (laughs) I’m just seeing if you would answer. (laughs) I can be sneaky.
Frank: He jumped around on his knees and had big bruises on his knees.
Russell: So he had the war warts. I think he cops to it and looks on it fondly.
Frank: Do you see the history?
Russell: Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. And I think he glimpses it at this point with respect. But he had a conflict of mainstream/avant-garde, or whatever you want to call it, in him. He walks that tightrope. So sometimes he goes one way or the other too. (laughs) But a lot of people don’t like that kind of thing. And a lot of people don’t even go as far as him. He seems to have or tried to apply some of the stuff you were doing at the time in his life since then, which … that’s good. That there’s still an effect all of those years later. You lived it. That’s you. But he walks that tightrope so, and yet he still gives it its credence, tries to keep it there.
Frank: He banned me from the CP Center.
Russell: (laughs) Why? He thought you had this bad influence? Corrupting?
Frank: (makes “yes” sound) A drama teacher had me show my movie there.
Russell: Fairytales?
Frank: Yes. Did I tell you before?
Russell: Yeah, I think so. But it’s still funny.
Frank: They were adults, most were less disabled than me. But they are warehoused.
Russell: Yeah.
Frank: Most don’t talk.
Russell: I know. I’ve been up there and I’ve seen it. I used to go up there with my friend and we always had the discussion afterwards of how many of them were cognitively impaired and how many of them were just starved and had not been given the opportunity, were just socialized into being that way.
Frank: Exactly.
Russell: Yeah. It’s kind of scary. You come away feeling … it’s sort of a weird, morbid thing.
Frank: When they were watching my movie … (Frank emotes enthusiastically)
Russell: They were responding?
Frank: They were singing.
Russell: (laughs) You got through to them. You broke through to the other side, as Jim Morrison says.
Frank: Afterwards they talked. They wanted to date. They wanted to risk. “My sister don’t want me to get hurt. I don’t care. I am willing to get hurt if that is what it takes.” (screams)
Russell: (laughs) You shook it up, you shook up the old pot.
Frank: Does that sound like mental?
Russell: No.
Frank: The teacher was excited. He did not understand his job. He thought it was to get them into life. (screams) So he invited me back. (laughs)
Russell: So was that when Hoffman stepped in?
Frank: After a few days the teacher called me. The Director said, “No way.” It took a lot to calm the clients back down.
Russell: Oh yeah. And was the director Hoffman?
Frank: Yes. Of course, his ex-wife is in it.
Russell: What do you mean?
Frank: In Fairytales.
Russell: So did you guys ever talk about that later?
Frank: No. I don’t think I have seen him since then.
Russell: When was that?
Frank: I did not see him then.
Russell: Oh, he just sent word.
Frank: The late 1980s.
Russell: He just sent word, he didn’t tell you himself?
Frank: Yes.
Russell: He didn’t want to confront you.
Frank: Dangerous.
Russell: Yeah. He didn’t want to chance anything.
Frank: Give them hope.
Russell: So, what was he doing there? (laughs)
Frank: Warehousing.
Russell: Yeah. It’s always been curious to me. And if I hadn’t encountered some barriers up there, I might have interviewed men from there instead of in the community and had gotten a much different view. Because a lot of the barriers that exist for those … like that’s a barrier right there.
Frank: They are not allowed sex.
Russell: Well, yeah. Every once in a while they will let someone come in and talk about it, but when, with the support of several staff, my study got close, the Director put a stop to it for a couple months until all of this business was taken care of. He wanted to meet with me in a couple months and I didn’t want to hang around for a couple months waiting, so I just went with my other alternative. But I heard from one of the staff members, there was a history there where some staff member had been caught masturbating one of the men there and had gotten fired. And that that was what the history that was there was why they were really wary. (laughs) But, I don’t know the circumstances about that, but I can imagine. That kind of thing is not necessarily taboo to me, but institutions like that have to protect their whatever they’re trying to protect. Their good name, legal shit.
Frank: They are prisons.
Russell: Yeah. But even though a lot of those guys get to go home to group homes, a lot of them, they just come back there the next day. Group homes probably are just as much of a prison because … It’s really kind of a shame that somebody is not brave enough, it’s not necessarily brave enough, but you have to be able to get through the barriers, the gatekeepers yourself, to segue and expose that situation. Someday somebody will.

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Credit Card Morality

As published in Frankly Speaking: A Collection of Essays, Writings & Rants by Frank Moore. Excerpted from Cherotic Magic Revised by Frank Moore, July 1998.

Do to others as you would want to be done to you. Treat people as yourself. Love your neighbor, your enemy, others as yourself. You will reap what you sow. The law of karma. These are all nice abstractions with the loopholes of individualistic choice and time built into them. That is, they secretly imply that there is a choice about seeing the other as separate from yourself, from your personal body…imply that there is a karmic credit card on which you can in effect charge “wrong” action to be paid, with a certain rate of interest, in either good works or suffering at a later date. This creates a judging, an evaluating, a choosing, a questioning whether a “wrong” action is worth the charge on the credit card, how it affects your credit rating. Worst yet, it, like the bank’s Mastercard, tends to hide the real costs of the “wrong” actions, hiding it within the easy payment plan, hiding the wide-ranging resulting effects of the “wrong” actions.

“Wrong” actions are different both from mistakes and from “bad” action in a morality system. Mistakes are learning tools within life’s evolution. Mistakes are vital, unavoidable, and vulnerable because true mistakes are the result of creative risk-taking. A “mistake” that is repeated over and over is not a mistake at all, but a “wrong” action. A wrong action is an action which harms, does not promote life-affirmations…it is in fact a life-denial, broadcasting life-denials. Morality is an itemized list from the moral visa card…a list of all the possible sins and the form of payment required for each sin. But nowhere on this list is there any mention of the real results, both personal and dynamic, of the so-called sin.

This moral/karmic easy payment plan is one of the main means by which the life-denying power-combine abstracts us out of the direct involving experience of life. It puts the results outside of the personal present into an impersonal future. It puts the “payment” result of a sin outside of the personal present into both an impersonal past and impersonal future…that is, in a moral system of payment. You are paying for past sins in the future. This is fragmenting the reality of experience. A credit card makes it much harder to experience the reality of buying something because it fragments the exchange, the relationship, between two people. There is no exchange of what/who you are in the present. So it is very much harder to feel, experience, the real worth or result of the buying experience. It is much harder to feel, experience who you really are. So you spend more than you would if it had been a physical exchange, a physical relationship, between you and another person. Moreover, the medium of the exchange, money, has been abstracted into unreality, put outside the personal reality. This makes spending casually a matter of course. Creating this casualness is a main reason for credit cards, poker chips, and sins.

But the abstraction does not end at the purchase experience. Without the context of the relationship of exchange, the actual experience of the result of the exchange…for example, the concert which the ticket is for…takes on an unreality to it. Moreover, when it comes time to pay, the experience of the concert has long ago happened, faded into the past. The payment is no longer a personal physical involvement in the actual experience of the concert. The payment is now an involvement with the abstraction, the power system, of the credit card. This involvement with the abstraction is the concept of duty, “should” duty. Because the experience of the concert has been long ago made over into an abstraction before payment time, it is difficult to feel the real effect of the concert. So you dutifully, casually pay the credit card bill.

This basic credit card dynamic is at the root of all moral systems. All moral systems are systems of power, of abstraction, of fragmentation. A moral system contains a framework of shoulds, should nots, taboos. This moral framework is substituted for the direct experience of life. The reasons for the shoulds, should nots, and taboos are not revealed or explained. Love thy neighbor. Thou shall not kill. But there is not a real sense of why. This is true of the modern anti-moral systems of “going with the flow” and “do your own thing”…these anti-moral systems are just moral systems dressed up in mirrors. The should/taboo framework is a con for power.

A saint takes on a moral system so completely that he becomes the social system. Living within a moral framework as a saint does limits the personal ability to shape reality, hence transferring this ability in the form of power to the abstract social structure.

But a life of a saint is not the real goal of any moral system. If everybody lived as saints, the power that was thus generated would not be anywhere near enough to keep an abstract structure in existence. This is why real saints are always in a very tiny minority or a false myth. Saints are decoy models projected in front of people by the abstract power structure.

The real goal of any moral system is personal failure. This type of failure is different from the failure within evolution or creativity. It is the failure of a victim or a loser. A moral system is set up to be almost impossible, if not in fact impossible, for humans to live within. At the heart of the con of morality is to convince the people that they should do what they are not empowered to do. Convince them by creating a system of rewards and punishments which is based on the fragmentation of time into past and future. Once a person is plugged into this reward/punishment system, he stops shaping his actions by the concrete experience of the results, both linear and nonlinear, of his actions. Instead, he starts focusing on the rewards and punishments within the moral system…starts focusing on the past and/or future…starts doing/not doing based on the promised reward/punishment. This abstracts the person out of the direct present experience of his life action and its resulting effects. This abstraction is the root cause of personal casualness. Once he is thus abstracted out of the direct experience, he can be sold whatever prepackaged pictures of reality that the abstract power structures issue, will pay whatever price for forgiveness, protection, for a piece of power (no matter how small). In this way, the person is convinced by the power structure that he needs it, needs to belong to it, to conform to its prepackaged deck of pictures of reality.

Our modern social world is made up of the combine of moral systems. Each power system…be it political, religious, social, economical, or sexual…issues its own deck of reality pictures and moral credit cards. This moral combine includes power systems that we do not usually think of as moral systems. What I am thinking of are the systems of romance, glamour, and education. A moral system is a system that abstracts reality into mental pictures into the past/future.

Love others as yourself. Why? If you do, you will be rewarded sometime in the future. If you do, you will be paying back for something bad you did sometime in the past…or, for that matter, for something bad you will do in the future. This is the logic of morals. It is individualistic ego-centered. It abstracts your dynamic relationship with the other out of reality.

Deep love can be defined as: treat the other as yourself, love the other as yourself, because the other is in fact yourself, is part of your body. So what you do to/with/for the other, you are doing to yourself within the point of action of now. Deep love goes back to the pre-shamanistic personal awareness of the land, the plants and animals, the others in the tribe, and in fact the whole physical existence as parts of the personal body, and hence within personal responsibility.

Art by LaBash from Cherotic Magic Revised

I HATE NICE PEOPLE

by Frank Moore, Thursday, April 11, 2002

i get worried if my words and images fit through veins clogged with fatty taboos of polite appropriate of comfortability.

i get worried…is the art that small that it fits through that pinhole of a hole…so small that nudes on the walls, words on telephone poles, any shift in the social power structure threatens the very reality fabric.

i’m too proud to admit the art poetry is that small. so my art becomes a 
roto-rooting balloon covered in razors tipped in draino acid, pushing pressuring uncomfortable unsocial grinding against the grain until the killer fatty clots of taboos burst out the other end and go down the drain like trouble.

i don’t really go after the hitlers, the mccarthys, the helms, or their 
brown shirts.

they are just limp-dicked power-junkies with swiss-cheese egos, each hole filled with inferiority. they are just moons with no power light of themselves, just reflecting fear.

no, i go after the nice people who never asked where the trains were going, boxcars filled with people. didn’t have to. only suspected, only heard rumors…after all, the general is a friend. never said, excuse me, i am a jew too, arab too, a jap too, a gay too, i’ve negro blood running in my body, aids too. i’m a commie who took home movies of our nude kids. so better put me on that train too. better put us all on that train. there ain’t no train big enough!

i go after the nice people who keep going to work after seeing their friends missing, after hearing rumors of blacklist and blackball. must write something about that subject to THE TIMES. he used to be such a pleasant fellow…but now he is a whining paranoid…not a sort to have to tea. he is like a wet messy fart. not in my backyard!

yes, i go after nice people. but my time in the belljar is about over. so i’ll leave you with this. what is happening in your backyard is what really matters. so be sure to weed!

“Seated Nude”, oil on canvas, 36” x 36”, 1981 by Frank Moore

“Labyrinth”

From Cherotic Magic Revised, Chapter 2: Chero (Section 8) by Frank Moore, first published in 1990:


Almost anything can be used as a model to show how the cherotic life works, even computer games.  My kid got a computer game “Labyrinth” a few years back.  It is a maze game with ever‑changing walls, with monsters bent on eating or shooting you if you don’t shoot them first.  You have to rescue four men from four different cells and reach the door to the next level before you get killed three times.  It, like life, appeared to be an action game requiring speed and quick reflexes.  My kid has quick reflexes, so he was very good at this fast, high‑action game, full of tension, stress and glamour.  He reached level 8 (of 12 levels) very quickly.  But then he got restless and bored; so he quit playing.
 
Even though I could operate the controls to the game, there appeared to be no way for me to play the game successfully, because I did not and will not ever have speed and quick reflexes.  But I started playing the game just to have something to do.  I did want to reach the higher levels, but I put that want in my wakan brain and forgot it.  (We will use this wakan brain in creating our reality later.)  I accepted the framework of the game and started to absorb it into my body.  I made it my own, even though it appeared I was a helpless victim of the game.  For months I did not rescue even one man.  But my body absorbed the rhythm of the changing walls.  I began to feel where to move to avoid death and to get nearer to my objective.  I did not try to understand because the events in the game are randomly nonlinear. But I tuned in on the reality of the game.  By doing so, I changed the game into a slow strategy game.  I did this by not resisting the structure, but by taking it on as my own.
 
This slow game offered much more fun to me than the fast game offered my son.  If we measure the fun in time, my son only played the game semi‑regularly for only a few months, while I have played it now for a few years.
 
Every time I am about to move on to a new, higher level, I get stuck.  I keep just about getting it, but then “failing.”  This is because I let my wanting to get to the higher level out of my wakan brain, letting it become the goal that I am focused on.  This raises the stress level to the point where I cannot do anything right.  I get nervous and fearful.

I have learned to put my wants and goals away in my wakan brain ‑‑ to not focus on my wants and goals while still having them.  I have learned that once I have my wants and goals in a priority order in my wakan brain, it sets the automatic process in motion to get what I want.  If I tried to plan, plot, manipulate to get what I wanted, it would get in the way.  I always get what I want, but rarely in the way I thought I would get.
 
Once I get my desires back into my wakan brain where they belong, the stress, fear, and nervous levels go down.  The getting to the new level loses its special glamour, becoming just another state which I will some day get to, if not today, then maybe tomorrow.  When this attitude is firmly implanted, one day I am guided into the new level.  I cannot take credit for this.  I am just let in.  After this high point, my average score usually plunges.  (A contraction.)  If I stay calm and committed, my average score slowly climbs past the high point towards the next level.  I have gone from not being able to get a single man to being on level 3, going for level 4.  I went from being totally limited to being in the state of all possibilities.  This was done not by anything I did or because of any skill I developed.  It was done by enjoying playing even when there was no reachable goal.  Enjoying playing unlocked every possibility.

Photo by Linda Mac